Comments on: Does Islam require four witnesses for rape? http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/ The purpose of this website is to facilitate Muslim responses to the various mendacious polemics and distortions of Islam by the Christian missionaries and their anti-Islamic allies that are being spread over the Internet. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:05:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Al-Qur'aan wa Sunnah http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-7952 Al-Qur'aan wa Sunnah Sat, 23 Dec 2006 03:47:34 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-7952 MashaAllah Xman, May Allah increase you in goodness and grant you the knowledge and understanding of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. May Allah help us to educate people on Islam as effectively and magnificently as the Prophet(saas) and his companions did. MashaAllah Xman, May Allah increase you in goodness and grant you the knowledge and understanding of the Qur’an and the Sunnah. May Allah help us to educate people on Islam as effectively and magnificently as the Prophet(saas) and his companions did.

]]> By: Xman http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-7800 Xman Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:38:34 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-7800 HeiGou, as usual, assumes much without checking for himself what the Holy Quran says. It says "Those who accuse chaste women but don't provide 4 witnesses, flog them with 80 stripes and never trust them again..." No Zina word here HeiGoo. Your hatred blinds you again. And HeiGou blindly assumes that Islamic Law ONLY relies on 4 witnesses or a confession. Does he SERIOUSLY believe that Muslims dont believe in evidence gathering & forensics???? Thats what hatred does to you Heigou. Give it up. As for rape being similar to Highway Robbery, it makes perfect sense to me. A total stranger usually waits on lonely roads for a victim to rob or rape or both. As for the western concept of rape where a scantily dressed woman goes partying, gets drunk, invites a male friend to her house, then screams rape the next day !!!! And todays western societies are plagued with how to define rape & whether or not the woman herself is partly to blame for her dress and behaviour. This issue is so clear and simple to understand but HeiGous Hatred has confused and blinded him. HeiGou, as usual, assumes much without checking for himself what the Holy Quran says. It says “Those who accuse chaste women but don’t provide 4 witnesses, flog them with 80 stripes and never trust them again…”

No Zina word here HeiGoo. Your hatred blinds you again.

And HeiGou blindly assumes that Islamic Law ONLY relies on 4 witnesses or a confession. Does he SERIOUSLY believe that Muslims dont believe in evidence gathering & forensics????
Thats what hatred does to you Heigou. Give it up.

As for rape being similar to Highway Robbery, it makes perfect sense to me.
A total stranger usually waits on lonely roads for a victim to rob or rape or both.

As for the western concept of rape where a scantily dressed woman goes partying, gets drunk, invites a male friend to her house, then screams rape the next day !!!!
And todays western societies are plagued with how to define rape & whether or not the woman herself is partly to blame for her dress and behaviour.

This issue is so clear and simple to understand but HeiGous Hatred has confused and blinded him.

]]> By: shadowofears http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-7630 shadowofears Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:40:26 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-7630 It doesnt mean that you have to do rape infront of four persons but you need four witnesses(in modern days you can also used medical test as a prove instead of four witnesses)that can prove the allegation. It doesnt mean that you have to do rape infront of four persons but you need four witnesses(in modern days you can also used medical test as a prove instead of four witnesses)that can prove the allegation.

]]> By: HeiGou http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6987 HeiGou Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:23:28 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6987 An interesting, but unimaginative defense of the Islamic law on rape. Not very convincing really. Notice this quote: "And those who accuse chaste women [of adultery] and then do not produce four witnesses….”" Notice the words in brackets "[of adultery]". They were not, I assume, in the original but added for "clarification" sake. That is, the author assumes what he wants to find. Presumably the Arabic word is "zina" which does not translate as "adultery" so much as sexual misconduct generally. After all this story originates with the "zina" of Aisha which for a while even Muhammed wavered on. As no one could have ever *ever* have suspected Aisha had committed adultery (or could they? Anyone here like to claim that for even a second a reasonable person knowing Aisha could suspect such a thing much less someone like Ali?) they must have thought it was rape and hence applied to all such cases. You can see this by the other term used: "According to the majority opinion of Muslim scholars, rape is considered as hirabah (highway robbery or terrorism) and hence rapists are to be punished according to the hirabah laws, as highlighted in the Qur’an." Clearly Islamic law lacks a term specifically for rape. Some scholars, in my opinion the vast majority of traditional scholars, have assimilated it to "zina" where it belongs. But modern apologists are attempting to claim it is "hirabah" even though rape has *nothing* in common with highway robbery *at* *all*. So does this article prove you do not need four adult male eyewitnesses? Of course not. Look at the case cited: "When he [the Prophet] was about to pass sentence, the man who [actually] had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her. He [the Prophet] said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words [Abu Dawud said: “meaning the man who was seized”], and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: “Stone him to death.“4" Brilliant. In the absence of four adult male eyewitnesses, you may convict if the man confesses. How many rapists confess? Either this man was seriously mentally disturbed, unusually repentant (in which case I doubt he would have been a rapist anyway) or the story is fiction. Either way it is irrelevant as rapists do not usually confess. In short, this article does nothing whatsoever to change the basic facts of Islamic law - rape needs four adult male eyewitnesses. An interesting, but unimaginative defense of the Islamic law on rape. Not very convincing really. Notice this quote:

“And those who accuse chaste women [of adultery] and then do not produce four witnesses….””

Notice the words in brackets “[of adultery]“. They were not, I assume, in the original but added for “clarification” sake. That is, the author assumes what he wants to find. Presumably the Arabic word is “zina” which does not translate as “adultery” so much as sexual misconduct generally. After all this story originates with the “zina” of Aisha which for a while even Muhammed wavered on. As no one could have ever *ever* have suspected Aisha had committed adultery (or could they? Anyone here like to claim that for even a second a reasonable person knowing Aisha could suspect such a thing much less someone like Ali?) they must have thought it was rape and hence applied to all such cases. You can see this by the other term used:

“According to the majority opinion of Muslim scholars, rape is considered as hirabah (highway robbery or terrorism) and hence rapists are to be punished according to the hirabah laws, as highlighted in the Qur’an.”

Clearly Islamic law lacks a term specifically for rape. Some scholars, in my opinion the vast majority of traditional scholars, have assimilated it to “zina” where it belongs. But modern apologists are attempting to claim it is “hirabah” even though rape has *nothing* in common with highway robbery *at* *all*.

So does this article prove you do not need four adult male eyewitnesses? Of course not. Look at the case cited:

“When he [the Prophet] was about to pass sentence, the man who [actually] had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He [the Prophet] said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words [Abu Dawud said: “meaning the man who was seized”], and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: “Stone him to death.“4″

Brilliant. In the absence of four adult male eyewitnesses, you may convict if the man confesses. How many rapists confess? Either this man was seriously mentally disturbed, unusually repentant (in which case I doubt he would have been a rapist anyway) or the story is fiction. Either way it is irrelevant as rapists do not usually confess.

In short, this article does nothing whatsoever to change the basic facts of Islamic law - rape needs four adult male eyewitnesses.

]]> By: dav http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6710 dav Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:12:39 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6710 The victim in the Hadith is a muslim. What if the victim is a non-muslim? Are there any verses in the Quran or Hadith that record such? The victim in the Hadith is a muslim. What if the victim is a non-muslim? Are there any verses in the Quran or Hadith that record such?

]]> By: dav http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6709 dav Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:10:10 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6709 U have quoted from the Hadith on rape. Are there any verses in the Quran that state the punishment for rape? It is locally common, that rapist escape judgement if he agrees to take the victim as his wife. Do you think the syariah court need to standardize on this? Did the rapist in this hadith punished since he repented? Any how there are muslims who do not believe in the authority of the Hadith. U have quoted from the Hadith on rape. Are there any verses in the Quran that state the punishment for rape? It is locally common, that rapist escape judgement if he agrees to take the victim as his wife. Do you think the syariah court need to standardize on this? Did the rapist in this hadith punished since he repented? Any how there are muslims who do not believe in the authority of the Hadith.

]]> By: Abu Hamza http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6571 Abu Hamza Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:33:47 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/#comment-6571 How come you didn't select this Hadith as evidence that you don't need 4 witnesses to provee rape? Rasoolullah (saw) punsihed this man for rape without asking for 4 witnesses: Sunan Abu Dawood Book 38, Number 4366: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her. She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death. He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. How come you didn’t select this Hadith as evidence that you don’t need 4 witnesses to provee rape? Rasoolullah (saw) punsihed this man for rape without asking for 4 witnesses:

Sunan Abu Dawood
Book 38, Number 4366:
Narrated Wa’il ibn Hujr:

When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.

She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).

When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them.

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