Comments on: The Descent Of Jesus Son Of Mary, As Portrayed In The Quran http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/ The purpose of this website is to facilitate Muslim responses to the various mendacious polemics and distortions of Islam by the Christian missionaries and their anti-Islamic allies that are being spread over the Internet. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:16:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: canjo http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-20175 canjo Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:26:14 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-20175 The Descent Of Jesus Son Of Mary, As Portrayed In Quran I any muslim or non muslim brother and sister want to know what in fact Islam and Quran says ab ascend and desend of jesus; he/she MUST visit following. MOST AUTHENTIC INFO abt this TOPIC http://groups.google.com/group/PZSDFTP/web/was-jesus-son-of-mary-ascended The Descent Of Jesus Son Of Mary, As Portrayed In Quran

I any muslim or non muslim brother and sister want to know what in fact Islam and Quran says ab
ascend and desend of jesus; he/she MUST visit following. MOST AUTHENTIC INFO abt this TOPIC

http://groups.google.com/group.....y-ascended

]]> By: ROBINS http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7682 ROBINS Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:36:25 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7682 <strong>[Admin: Deleted for inappropriate language and referring to Muslims as "clowns". Remember what site you are in, infidel.]</strong> [Admin: Deleted for inappropriate language and referring to Muslims as "clowns". Remember what site you are in, infidel.]

]]> By: shadowofears http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7628 shadowofears Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:29:03 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7628 Many early Christian sects did not believe Jesus was crucified. Jesus laughed with joy: Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all. Those, then, who know these things have been freed from the principalities who formed the world; so that it is not incumbent on us to confess him who was crucified, but him who came in the form of a man, and was thought to be crucified, and was called Jesus, and was sent by the Father. (The Church Father Iranaeus, Against Heresies, Chapter XXIV.-Doctrines of Saturninus and Basilides) Notice how Iranaeus says “through ignorance and error” the Jews misapprehended, and crucified the wrong person. Amazingly, the Holy Quran harmonizes this account, stating that they follow error, conjecture, and ignorance: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: (Al-Quran 4:157) The 1945 discovery of Gnostic texts at Nag Hammadi, Egypt unearthed a book called The Second Treatise of the Great Seth, where Jesus states: I did not succumb to them as they had planned. But I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me. And I did not die in reality but in appearance, lest I be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I suffered according to their sight and thought, in order that they may never find any word to speak about them. For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. For their Ennoias did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance. (The Treatise of the Great Seth) “There are also several historical sources other than the Bible and the Qur'an which confirm that many of the early Christians did not believe that Jesus died on the cross...The Cerinthians and later the Basilidians, for example, who were among the first of the early Christian communities, denied that Jesus was crucified...The Carpocratians, another early Christian sect, believed that it was not Jesus who was crucified, but another in his place”. (Jesus Prophet of Islam, Muhammad Ataur-Raheem, Ahmed Thompson, 1996 (revised edition. p47) “… Plotinus, who lived in the fourth century, tells us that he had read a book called The Journies of the Apostles which related the acts of Peter, John, Andrew, Thomas and Paul. Among other things, it stated that Jesus was not crucified, but another in his place, and therefore, he laughed at those who believed that they had crucified him”. (ibid, Jesus Prophet of Islam, 1991 edition. P. 37) Many early Christian sects did not believe Jesus was crucified. Jesus laughed with joy:

Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all. Those, then, who know these things have been freed from the principalities who formed the world; so that it is not incumbent on us to confess him who was crucified, but him who came in the form of a man, and was thought to be crucified, and was called Jesus, and was sent by the Father.

(The Church Father Iranaeus, Against Heresies, Chapter XXIV.-Doctrines of Saturninus and Basilides)

Notice how Iranaeus says “through ignorance and error” the Jews misapprehended, and crucified the wrong person. Amazingly, the Holy Quran harmonizes this account, stating that they follow error, conjecture, and ignorance:

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: (Al-Quran 4:157)

The 1945 discovery of Gnostic texts at Nag Hammadi, Egypt unearthed a book called The Second Treatise of the Great Seth, where Jesus states:

I did not succumb to them as they had planned. But I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me. And I did not die in reality but in appearance, lest I be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I suffered according to their sight and thought, in order that they may never find any word to speak about them. For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. For their Ennoias did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance. (The Treatise of the Great Seth)

“There are also several historical sources other than the Bible and the Qur’an which confirm that many of the early Christians did not believe that Jesus died on the cross…The Cerinthians and later the Basilidians, for example, who were among the first of the early Christian communities, denied that Jesus was crucified…The Carpocratians, another early Christian sect, believed that it was not Jesus who was crucified, but another in his place”.

(Jesus Prophet of Islam, Muhammad Ataur-Raheem, Ahmed Thompson, 1996 (revised edition. p47)

“… Plotinus, who lived in the fourth century, tells us that he had read a book called The Journies of the Apostles which related the acts of Peter, John, Andrew, Thomas and Paul. Among other things, it stated that Jesus was not crucified, but another in his place, and therefore, he laughed at those who believed that they had crucified him”.

(ibid, Jesus Prophet of Islam, 1991 edition. P. 37)

]]> By: rainman http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7608 rainman Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:15:14 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7608 me:he said above that the pro jesus crowd probably had to keep thier mouth shut because they were in thier minority. Koyaanisqatsi :A common ridiculous apologetic. me:isn't there a verse in the gospel of mark that says that if the jewish chief priests had nailed jesus on the day of the feast then the crowd may riot? Koyaanisqatsi:Indeed there is. Beginning of Mark 14 (NIV): 1 Now the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were only two days away, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some sly way to arrest Jesus and kill him. 2"But not during the Feast," they said, "or the people may riot." They fear a riot on the day of the Feast, which is two days away; then on the actual day, they not only do not fear a riot, but the presumably riot-ready crowd can now be so easily swayed. It's a "miracle." That makes absolutely no sense at all. ----- > if there was no replacement of another that resembled esa on the > cross then why does ALLAH says "it was made to appear"? does the > arabic say "made" and "appear" in 4:157? No, it does not say that. Lakin shubbiha lahum means "But it is obscure to them." > please inform me on this. i know that the verb "appear" does not > mean that a person has to witness something. appear can mean that > they had an impression that they killed esa. First know the actual history: Abraham asked ALLAH for an heir, and ALLAH gave him Isma'il, from whom would come a descendant who would "show them their ways" as ALLAH had shown Abraham his way. This descendant was known as the Messenger of the Covenant. Then Ishaq (Isaac) was born, and Abraham asked ALLAH for a distinction for Ishaq comparable to the distinction He had given Isma'il. ALLAH gave Abraham a nation of twelve princes among whom prophets would continue to be present until the coming of the Messiah; this nation would prepare the way for the Messenger of the Covenant and, when the Messiah came, would announce the imminent arrival ~ in Isma'il ~ of that Messenger of the Covenant. The Children of Israel promised to do this at Sinai. After the death of Solomon, the corrupt among the leaders of Israel forged The Lie ~ that the Messenger of the Covenant would come in Israel ~ and changed words from their places and twisted their tongues with The Book to propagate that Lie in Israel. Their first plan was to recruit the Messiah to that fraud on humanity, and he refused. Their backup plan was to discredit him by having him crucified, which the Torah called a curse. They failed at this as well. So they lied about it, claiming to have succeeded. The truth is that "neither did they kill him nor did they crucify him, but it is obscure to them." Thus everything in the "New Testament" after the visit of 'Isa to the Garden of Gethsemane ~ at least ~ is that false claim to have killed him, and a lie. Paul then went on to make 'Isa into the Messenger of the Covenant based on this falsehood, to deceive the pagans of Europe and pit them against the true Messenger, which animosity persists today. There was no "crucifiction" event that involved 'Isa in any way. The false claims of the corrupt of Temple Israel have no basis whatever, and for those who believe that Jesus was crucified, "it is obscure to them." ALLAH did not help the corrupt with their lies by making something "seem like it." Grammatically, shubbiha (with "u") means "it is obscure," and has no external direct object. To say "it was made to seem like IT" would be an Arabic word like tashabbaha (to be made to seem like) or more precisely tashabbahaha (to be made to seem like IT), or inshabbahaha (it seems like IT), always with an external object "IT" to which the subject is likened. None of these is the word in the Ayat. Shabbaha (with "a") is an active verb with a direct object, and means "he made it to seem like." It requires a following suffix, a direct object like -ha, to make the word shabbahaha, which means "he made it to seem like it." Shubbiha is the passive verb, and has no external direct object ~ "it is obscure." The active forms of all the verbs on this sh-b-h root have the "a" on the first consonant; the passive forms of all the verbs on this sh-b-h root have "u" instead. This is a basic rule of Arabic grammar. "Shubbiha" cannot support the translation "It was made to seem like it." There was no crucifiction, it was a lie to discredit Jesus among the Children of Israel and to foster a resurrection of the Nimrodian "man-god" paganism for the people of Europe. The whole story was completely unknown among the Children of Israel for the first century after Jesus was present among them ~ otherwise, there would have been no apostle or disciples, none of the faithful of Israel would have followed an accursed man. All "substitution" theories are merely variations on The Lie. me:he said above that the pro jesus crowd probably had to keep thier mouth shut because they were in thier minority.

Koyaanisqatsi :A common ridiculous apologetic.

me:isn’t there a verse in the gospel of mark that says that if the jewish chief priests had nailed jesus on the day of the feast then the crowd may riot?

Koyaanisqatsi:Indeed there is. Beginning of Mark 14 (NIV):

1 Now the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were only two days away, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some sly way to arrest Jesus and kill him. 2″But not during the Feast,” they said, “or the people may riot.”

They fear a riot on the day of the Feast, which is two days away; then on the actual day, they not only do not fear a riot, but the presumably riot-ready crowd can now be so easily swayed.

It’s a “miracle.” That makes absolutely no sense at all.

—–

> if there was no replacement of another that resembled esa on the
> cross then why does ALLAH says “it was made to appear”? does the
> arabic say “made” and “appear” in 4:157?

No, it does not say that. Lakin shubbiha lahum means “But it is obscure to them.”

> please inform me on this. i know that the verb “appear” does not
> mean that a person has to witness something. appear can mean that
> they had an impression that they killed esa.

First know the actual history:

Abraham asked ALLAH for an heir, and ALLAH gave him Isma’il, from whom would come a descendant who would “show them their ways” as ALLAH had shown Abraham his way. This descendant was known as the Messenger of the Covenant. Then Ishaq (Isaac) was born, and Abraham asked ALLAH for a distinction for Ishaq comparable to the distinction He had given Isma’il. ALLAH gave Abraham a nation of twelve princes among whom prophets would continue to be present until the coming of the Messiah; this nation would prepare the way for the Messenger of the Covenant and, when the Messiah came, would announce the imminent arrival ~ in Isma’il ~ of that Messenger of the Covenant. The Children of Israel promised to do this at Sinai.

After the death of Solomon, the corrupt among the leaders of Israel forged The Lie ~ that the Messenger of the Covenant would come in Israel ~ and changed words from their places and twisted their tongues with The Book to propagate that Lie in Israel. Their first plan was to recruit the Messiah to that fraud on humanity, and he refused. Their backup plan was to discredit him by having him crucified, which the Torah called a curse. They failed at this as well. So they lied about it, claiming to have succeeded. The truth is that “neither did they kill him nor did they crucify him, but it is obscure to them.”

Thus everything in the “New Testament” after the visit of ‘Isa to the Garden of Gethsemane ~ at least ~ is that false claim to have killed him, and a lie. Paul then went on to make ‘Isa into the Messenger of the Covenant based on this falsehood, to deceive the pagans of Europe and pit them against the true Messenger, which animosity persists today.

There was no “crucifiction” event that involved ‘Isa in any way. The false claims of the corrupt of Temple Israel have no basis whatever, and for those who believe that Jesus was crucified, “it is obscure to them.” ALLAH did not help the corrupt with their lies by making something “seem like it.”

Grammatically, shubbiha (with “u”) means “it is obscure,” and has no external direct object. To say “it was made to seem like IT” would be an Arabic word like tashabbaha (to be made to seem like) or more precisely tashabbahaha (to be made to seem like IT), or inshabbahaha (it seems like IT), always with an external object “IT” to which the subject is likened. None of these is the word in the Ayat.

Shabbaha (with “a”) is an active verb with a direct object, and means “he made it to seem like.” It requires a following suffix, a direct object like -ha, to make the word shabbahaha, which means “he made it to seem like it.” Shubbiha is the passive verb, and has no external direct object ~ “it is obscure.” The active forms of all the verbs on this sh-b-h root have the “a” on the first consonant; the passive forms of all the verbs on this sh-b-h root have “u” instead. This is a basic rule of Arabic grammar. “Shubbiha” cannot support the translation “It was made to seem like it.”

There was no crucifiction, it was a lie to discredit Jesus among the Children of Israel and to foster a resurrection of the Nimrodian “man-god” paganism for the people of Europe. The whole story was completely unknown among the Children of Israel for the first century after Jesus was present among them ~ otherwise, there would have been no apostle or disciples, none of the faithful of Israel would have followed an accursed man. All “substitution” theories are merely variations on The Lie.

]]> By: Mujaahid http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7274 Mujaahid Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:13:51 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7274 The Bible its self claim jesus(pbuh) did NOT killed or Crucified. - ACCORDING to Bibles : JESUS(Pbuh) prayed To be saved from death : " And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? "- MARK 15:34 JESUS(pbuh) Saved from [ DEATH] : " Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,"- HEBREWS 5:7 The big Questions where Crucifiction come from ?? the answer is : FROM PAUL The devil , Read what he said ....... RESURRECTION was paul's ( NEW COMMANDEMENTS ) Teaching : " And certain also of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, What would this babbler say? others, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached Jesus and the resurrection.And they took hold of him, and brought him unto the Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new teaching is, which is spoken by thee? "- ACTS 17:18-19 Paul brought News things : " For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean."- ACTS 17:19-20 The above verses Clears Jesus(pbuh) from lies of PAULS and christians , that he was killed. Paul the devil said , Preach to foolish people( the gentile) that chris CRUCIFIED . so , those accepted that are what he said . " but we PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness;"- 1 Corinthians 1:23 The Bible its self claim jesus(pbuh) did NOT killed or Crucified.

- ACCORDING to Bibles :

JESUS(Pbuh) prayed To be saved from death : ” And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? “- MARK 15:34

JESUS(pbuh) Saved from [ DEATH] : ” Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,”- HEBREWS 5:7

The big Questions where Crucifiction come from ?? the answer is : FROM PAUL The devil , Read what he said …….

RESURRECTION was paul’s ( NEW COMMANDEMENTS ) Teaching : ” And certain also of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, What would this babbler say? others, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached Jesus and the resurrection.And they took hold of him, and brought him unto the Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new teaching is, which is spoken by thee? “- ACTS 17:18-19

Paul brought News things : ” For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.”- ACTS 17:19-20

The above verses Clears Jesus(pbuh) from lies of PAULS and christians , that he was killed.

Paul the devil said , Preach to foolish people( the gentile) that chris CRUCIFIED . so , those accepted that are what he said .

” but we PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness;”- 1 Corinthians 1:23

]]> By: baruch_shem http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7268 baruch_shem Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:01:41 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7268 Hei Arnold ! It's better for you to read the book The Jesus paper... It is very reliable and it was quite suprising to see that it was not Jesus of Nazareth who was crucified but instead it was "Chrestus" who created sedition in Jerusalem in order to launch a revolt against the Romans. Besides, if jesus is guilty of breaking the jewish law, he would be stoned to death, not Curicfied !!! Crucifixion is only a legal punishment or people who are a political threat to Rome, not to the jewish people... Jesus was never god or son of god !! That was a false accusation put by the Pharisees who were the puppet of the Sadduces !!! The fact is Jesus was a rebellious man !! He is actually really a political threat to Rome and their so-called Sadducess puppet !!! The sadducess know that one day he would claim back the throne of Israel. Judas iscariot was Judas of galilee, one of the most famous Zealot from the town of Galille. Galilee can be described as The "TIKRIT" of Israel where rebellions and revolts were launched against the Romans. It is a very hot spot during those days.... Jesus did also attempt to launch a revolt in the temple once.... Ask yourself : why did Jesus ask his deisciples to but swords ?? Why did Jesus said two swords is enough for our purpose ?? Well, one simple answer is Jesus was a Saccari..... an assasin... that's right.... He was involve in battles in order to restore cleanliness of the temple in Jerusalem... because the foundation of the temple in Jerusalem was actually being controlled by the puppets to the Romans... yeah...yeah... pontius Pilate, washing his hands so he is free from guilt of crucifiying Jesus... Only an insane person would believe that..... Actually, it was pontius Pilate who have full authority over the crucifixion because he is a Roman... the bible is just a cover up of the Romans guilts and crimes to the jewish people in Israel, making the jews look like a scapegoat !!! Actually, there are many groups jews in Israel did support Jesus..Jesus was actually the Messiah of Aaron and the King of Israel...It is only him who could restore back the clealiness of the holy temple in Jerusalem and free it by the disbelieveing sadducess and their roman counterparts... Hei Arnold !
It’s better for you to read the book The Jesus paper… It is very reliable and it was quite suprising to see that it was not Jesus of Nazareth who was crucified but instead it was “Chrestus” who created sedition in Jerusalem in order to launch a revolt against the Romans. Besides, if jesus is guilty of breaking the jewish law, he would be stoned to death, not Curicfied !!! Crucifixion is only a legal punishment or people who are a political threat to Rome, not to the jewish people…
Jesus was never god or son of god !! That was a false accusation put by the Pharisees who were the puppet of the Sadduces !!! The fact is Jesus was a rebellious man !! He is actually really a political threat to Rome and their so-called Sadducess puppet !!! The sadducess know that one day he would claim back the throne of Israel. Judas iscariot was Judas of galilee, one of the most famous Zealot from the town of Galille. Galilee can be described as The “TIKRIT” of Israel where rebellions and revolts were launched against the Romans. It is a very hot spot during those days…. Jesus did also attempt to launch a revolt in the temple once…. Ask yourself : why did Jesus ask his deisciples to but swords ?? Why did Jesus said two swords is enough for our purpose ?? Well, one simple answer is Jesus was a Saccari….. an assasin… that’s right….
He was involve in battles in order to restore cleanliness of the temple in Jerusalem…
because the foundation of the temple in Jerusalem was actually being controlled by the puppets to the Romans… yeah…yeah… pontius Pilate, washing his hands so he is free from guilt of crucifiying Jesus…
Only an insane person would believe that….. Actually, it was pontius Pilate who have full authority over the crucifixion because he is a Roman… the bible is just a cover up of the Romans guilts and crimes to the jewish people in Israel, making the jews look like a scapegoat !!!
Actually, there are many groups jews in Israel did support Jesus..Jesus was actually the Messiah of Aaron and the King of Israel…It is only him who could restore back the clealiness of the holy temple in Jerusalem and free it by the disbelieveing sadducess and their roman counterparts…

]]> By: Arnold http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7130 Arnold Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:52:58 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7130 rman, what does "it was made to appear" so mean? You say the crucufixion never took place. So how was it "made" to "appear" so and who made it appear so? If you think the Romans weren't appeasing at all, then tell me why it was a custom to sometimes let one jew who was sentenced to death to go free. That practice is a fact, and that's where the crowd chose barrabbas to go free instead of Jesus. You are totally full of it. Muslims have been trying to figure out a logical answer to 4:157 for years, and they still can't come up with one. It was a poorly thought out attempt at bringing conflicting ideas of jews and christians together. So what happened to all the pro jesus jews? They probably had to keep their mouth shut as they were far from a majority and they held no power, unlike the Jewish leaders (pharisee) who demanded Jesus' crucixion. As to why the Jewish officials wanted to ax him, it is clearly explained in the Bible. It was explained when Jesus cured the man's hand right in front of the Jewish officials, and they complained that this was blasphemous because he was healing on the sabbath, which is against the rules, and they charged him with getting his powers from demons. It was also outlined when the Jewish officials asked Jesus about paying money to Ceasar. They were trying to trap him by getting him to say something against Ceasar so they could use it to get the Romans to crucify him. And the Bible does confirm that Pilate saw no wrong doing that Jesus did, since Jesus claimed he was king of the Jews and not a king like Ceasar. And Pilate could have cared less which of the two men he freed. rman, what does “it was made to appear” so mean? You say the crucufixion never took place. So how was it “made” to “appear” so and who made it appear so? If you think the Romans weren’t appeasing at all, then tell me why it was a custom to sometimes let one jew who was sentenced to death to go free. That practice is a fact, and that’s where the crowd chose barrabbas to go free instead of Jesus. You are totally full of it. Muslims have been trying to figure out a logical answer to 4:157 for years, and they still can’t come up with one. It was a poorly thought out attempt at bringing conflicting ideas of jews and christians together.

So what happened to all the pro jesus jews? They probably had to keep their mouth shut as they were far from a majority and they held no power, unlike the Jewish leaders (pharisee) who demanded Jesus’ crucixion. As to why the Jewish officials wanted to ax him, it is clearly explained in the Bible. It was explained when Jesus cured the man’s hand right in front of the Jewish officials, and they complained that this was blasphemous because he was healing on the sabbath, which is against the rules, and they charged him with getting his powers from demons. It was also outlined when the Jewish officials asked Jesus about paying money to Ceasar. They were trying to trap him by getting him to say something against Ceasar so they could use it to get the Romans to crucify him.

And the Bible does confirm that Pilate saw no wrong doing that Jesus did, since Jesus claimed he was king of the Jews and not a king like Ceasar. And Pilate could have cared less which of the two men he freed.

]]> By: rman http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7095 rman Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:59:30 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7095 "And wherever he went--into villages, towns or countryside--they placed the sick in the marketplaces. They begged him to let them touch even the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed. " "Why would "the people" (aka, "the Jews;" presumably the same multitudes--all of Judea, in fact, according to Mark--who came out to witness John announcing Jesus as more holy than he and who will baptize them all with the Holy Spirit, baptizing Jesus and presumably heard the voice of God proclaim, ""You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased," and witnessed his healing "miracles" and blah, blah, blah--want Jesus crucified, particularly just after he was found to have committed no crime? " "But he wasn't considered a "false prophet" by John the Baptist and "the whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem" who heard John's words and witnessed John baptizing Jesus and he wasn't considered a "false prophet" by the whole town of Capernaum who witnessed his healing miracles and the result was that, "Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere," or the, "large crowd from Galilee" and the many people who "came to him from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon," who all cried out, "You are the Son of God," or the total of nine thousand men who ate of the loves and fishes, or all the untold many who threw their cloaks on the ground for his "triumphal entry" in Jerusalem where everyone want around shouting, ""Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David! Hosanna in the highest!" " we need to ask what the hell happended to all the pro jesus jews? were they part of the crowd that said "crucify him" if they were then why would they want a murderer free and thier flesh god nailed? “And wherever he went–into villages, towns or countryside–they placed
the sick in the marketplaces. They begged him to let them touch even
the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed. ”

“Why would “the people” (aka, “the Jews;” presumably the same
multitudes–all of Judea, in fact, according to Mark–who came out to
witness John announcing Jesus as more holy than he and who will baptize
them all with the Holy Spirit, baptizing Jesus and presumably heard the
voice of God proclaim, “”You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am
well pleased,” and witnessed his healing “miracles” and blah, blah,
blah–want Jesus crucified, particularly just after he was found to
have committed no crime? ”

“But he wasn’t considered a “false prophet” by John the Baptist and “the
whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem” who heard
John’s words and witnessed John baptizing Jesus and he wasn’t
considered a “false prophet” by the whole town of Capernaum who
witnessed his healing miracles and the result was that, “Jesus could no
longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the
people still came to him from everywhere,” or the, “large crowd from
Galilee” and the many people who “came to him from Judea, Jerusalem,
Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon,”
who all cried out, “You are the Son of God,” or the total of nine
thousand men who ate of the loves and fishes, or all the untold many
who threw their cloaks on the ground for his “triumphal entry” in
Jerusalem where everyone want around shouting, “”Hosanna! Blessed is he
who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the coming kingdom of our
father David! Hosanna in the highest!” ”

we need to ask what the hell happended to all the pro jesus jews? were they part of the crowd that said “crucify him” if they were then why would they want a murderer free and thier flesh god nailed?

]]> By: rman http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7094 rman Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:45:03 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7094 "Oh, so it was Jesus that made that other guy look like him. Jesus was the one who decieved. Jesus is supposedf to be a holy prophet of Islam. So a holy prophet plays little games and deceives people. But of course, as you know and believe about Jesus, he could never do this unless Allah gave him the power. So now we have God AND Jesus both being decievers. This gets better all of the time. " You are an idiot.It is in your religion that without keeping the children of israel spiritually blind and without allowing judas to betray your flesh god the crucifixon of your flesh god wouldn't of happened.It is in your religion.it is in your belief system that your flesh god planned this rightfrom the start.It is in your religion that his torah was used against him.I gave you a link showing QUR'AAN does not agree that the crucifion EVENT TOOK PLACE. “Oh, so it was Jesus that made that other guy look like him. Jesus was the one who decieved. Jesus is supposedf to be a holy prophet of Islam. So a holy prophet plays little games and deceives people. But of course, as you know and believe about Jesus, he could never do this unless Allah gave him the power. So now we have God AND Jesus both being decievers. This gets better all of the time. ”

You are an idiot.It is in your religion that without keeping the children of israel spiritually blind and without allowing judas to betray your flesh god the crucifixon of your flesh god wouldn’t of happened.It is in your religion.it is in your belief system that your flesh god planned this rightfrom the start.It is in your religion that his torah was used against him.I gave you a link showing QUR’AAN does not agree that the crucifion EVENT TOOK PLACE.

]]> By: rman http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7091 rman Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:40:48 +0000 http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/the-descent-of-jesus-son-of-mary-as-portrayed-in-the-quran/#comment-7091 "Oh, and rainman. Another thing you did that was pretty funny is give all of these reason why the crucifixion never happened at all. But that’s not what the Quran says. So all of the peculiarities you were pointing out goes against even the Quran." I gave you a link above to show you that according to the Qur'aan no man got replaced on the cross.I gave you a link to show you that according to the Qur'aan the crucifxion event didn't take place.But you didn't bother to check the link out. “Oh, and rainman. Another thing you did that was pretty funny is give all of these reason why the crucifixion never happened at all. But that’s not what the Quran says. So all of the peculiarities you were pointing out goes against even the Quran.”

I gave you a link above to show you that according to the Qur’aan no man got replaced on the cross.I gave you a link to show you that according to the Qur’aan the crucifxion event didn’t take place.But you didn’t bother to check the link out.

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