«Christ-Поклонники o! »: Qasidah опровергает христианство


24-ое апреля 2007

Al-Jauziyyah al-Qayyim Ibn

Примечание редактора: Al-Jauziyyah al-Qayyim Ibn было видно мусульманское jurist во время золотого периода мусульманства. Отдельно от его jurisdistic prowess, он был также сведущ в составлять qasidah (Арабская поэзия). Среди его более известных работ был qasidah озаглавлено ' Al-Nasraniyyah Fi Naqd al-Maseeh obbad (Christ-Поклонники o! В опровергать христианство). Это qasidah будет well-known в мусульманском мире и даже поворачивает в песню. Following будет английским переводом поэзии от арабского оригинала.

Christ-поклонники o! Мы хотим ответ к нашему вопросу [от ваших велемудрых одних],
Если лорд был убит поступком некоторые людей, то что вроде бог это?
Мы интересуем! Был он pleased они сделали к ему?
Если да, благословлено будьте ими, они достигл его удовольствия, то
Но если он был, то discontented, это намеревает их сила покорила его!

Была вся реальность налево без Sustainer, поэтому отвеченное молитвами?
Раи были vacated, когда он клал под землю где-то?
Были все миры оставленные без бога, для того чтобы управлять пока его руки были пригвозжены?
Почему ангелы не помогли ему, когда они услышали его пока он заголосил?

Как смогл стоят, что носят штанги поистине лорда когда он был прикреплен,
Как смогл утюги достигли его и [имел] Его прикалыванное тело?
Как смогли руки его противников' достигнуть его и шлепнуть его задий,
И Christ был возрожден by himself, или было Reviver другим богом?

Что визирование было, могила которая заключила бога,
Незнакомец все еще будет животом ограничил его!
Он остался там на 9 месяцев в дотла темноте, после того как он подан кровью!
После этого он get out утробы как малый младенец,
Слабо и задыхающся для того чтобы быть breast-fed!
Он съел и выпил, и сделал то естественно привело к,1
Это [вы звонок] бог?
Высокое Exalted было аллахом над лож христианок,
All of them будут держаться подотчетно для их пасквилей!

Крест-поклонники o! Для что причина этого exalted
и поричание [бросает на тех] излучают его?
Не логически сломать и сгореть его, вместе с одним innovated оно?2
Since the Lord was crucified on it, and his hands were fastened to it?
That is really a cursed cross to carry,
So discard it, do not kiss it!3

The Lord was abused on it, and you adore it?
So [it is clear that] you are one of His enemies!
If you extol it because it carried the Lord of the Worlds,
Why don’t you prostrate yourself and worship graves,
Since the grave contained your god in it?4

So Christ-worshipper, open your eyes,
This is what the matter is all about.

  1. Urination and defecation [back]
  2. Paul of Tarsus, founder of Trinitarian faith [back]
  3. i.e., don’t glorify it [back]
  4. i.e., since someone who is a Christian abhors the idea of worshipping a grave, how is it possible for them to worship the cross? [back]

This entry was posted on Tuesday, April 24th, 2007 at 6:26 pm and is filed under Christian Doctrines, Christianity, Jesus. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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15 Responses to ““O Christ-Worshippers!”: A Qasidah Which Refutes Christianity”

  1. usman said on 26 April 2007:

    the man-god died as a martyr?

    This does seem to imply that Jesus chose to die, if not the manner of his death (although, as the son aspect of an omniscient being, it would be hard to claim he didn’t know exactly how he would die). Jesus lays down his life, knowing that he will take it up again. To say that others since Jesus have been emulating his example is thus not correct, because others have gone to their deaths not having genuine foreknowledge, but at the most only faith in life after death or a future resurrection.

    Thus, the sacrifices of ordinary human beings before and after Jesus are more impressive than that of Jesus, since unlike them, according to the gospels, he was fully aware that he would be resurrected and then ascend into heaven. All he had to do was endure a few hours of pain and discomfort. Countless human beings have endured far more, and died only with the hope of living again, not with the absolute knowing that Jesus would have had.

    But now let’s go the opposite direction; suppose Jesus was simply a deluded person who believed himself to be the Messiah and believed his death would make atonement for sin. Well, not many people are going to go to their deaths thinking the same thing, that by their deaths they are going to save the world. They may think that at most they may save a few people’s lives and perhaps do their tiny part to make the world a better place, or perhaps they think advancing an ideal is worth the sacrifice. Is this not more impressive than someone dying knowing that his death will save the world and knowing that he will be reunited with his trinitarian parts?

  2. asim said on 7 May 2007:

    very intersting read. i wonder how a christan would respond.

  3. ShelbSpeaks said on 11 May 2007:

    As an evangelical Chrsitian and student, it is quite obvious that the writer of this song has never read the Bible or even Googled the bases of Christian faith. If so- all the “WHY?” questions would be void.

    We wonder! Was He pleased by what they did Him?
    Were the heavens vacated, when He laid under the ground somewhere?
    Why did not the angels help Him, when they heard him while he wailed?
    He ate and drank, and did what that naturally resulted,1
    Is this [what you call] a god?

    COME ON! The answers to such things are the very BASES for our faith! Try doing a little research before assuming we’re all blind idiots who believe whatever anyone tells us. I’m sure you’d want the same respect regarding your faith.

  4. Junaid said on 11 May 2007:

    ShelbSpeakers,

    the writer of the song was writing at a time when computers did not exist. So he could not “Google” :)

    He is a midieval writer and scholar.

  5. heman said on 12 May 2007:

    “As an evangelical Chrsitian and student, it is quite obvious that the writer of this song has never read the Bible or even Googled the bases of Christian faith. If so- all the “WHY?” questions would be void.”

    how could he google when there was no internet in his time? what i find interesting is this ?
    “Were the heavens vacated, when He laid under the ground somewhere?” i assume al jawziyah had access to a gospel that said the crosstian god got buried and had a burial service.

  6. Robert said on 17 May 2007:

    First of all, as a born again Christian, let me state emphatically that we do not worship the cross. We worship God in three parts, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity, if you will. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. What Christ accomplished on the cross assures me of eternal life in Heaven. Rest assured that the “heavens were not empty” while Christ hung on the cross or during his burial. God the Father still sat on the throne and heard the pleas and prayers of the faithful.

    USMAN (in reference to your post), while Christ knew full well that He was to die and that He would also be ressurected, that was not the real issue. At the moment of His death, at the time he took all the sins of the world past and present upon Himself, He was separated from the Father. THAT was the real sacrifice. The pain and death were inconsequential compared to even a moments separation from the Father. The cross is a symbol of that sacrifice. It is a rallying point for Christians, but we most certainly do not worship the cross.

    Christ was born in the flesh to live life as man and to be tempted as such. His sinless life provided the righteous basis for his sacrifice. He was the Lamb without spot or blemish.

    The writer of the referenced piece, regardless of his time period, had a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of Christ, His sacrifice, and exactly Who Christians worship.

    I pray humbly for the salvation of all who read this. Salvation for all is God’s will as expressed in His Holy Word.

  7. Faruh Rehan said on 17 May 2007:

    No shelb, for whatever the answers are in the bible, the questions still remain coz still the GOD died. And the idea that GOD died is….well shall I say ….questionable? For GOD created everything, inclusive death. GOD can’t lose control of death till it overpowers HIM and takes HIS “live”. Man just cannot kill their GOD. It is not a story about one mad scientist who creates a monster and only to be killed by it. Can’t you understand……? Hopefully you are not what Allah mentioned in the Al Quran. “They are deaf dumb and blind”

  8. heman said on 18 May 2007:

    ” At the moment of His death, at the time he took all the sins of the world past and present upon Himself, He was separated from the Father. THAT was the real sacrifice. The pain and death were inconsequential compared to even a moments separation from the Father. ”

    seperation in your invention means god stopped being god? did the second leg of trinity know what seperation feels like before he puts it into action/incarnation? or does his omniscience and omnipotence switch off like electrical items? you said, “he was seperated from the father” this sounds like what humanity has been doing with its children long before christianity.why do you apply this to god? if the son was “seperated” he knew that his holy spirt was still CONNECTED with the father,didn’t this holy spirit + father connection ease the “seperation”?

  9. Muhammed said on 25 May 2007:

    Salaam Robert,

    If I say “Why didn’t God just forgave sins?”, you will say “Because God does not go against His word(need blood to erase sins).” But the next statement is, God goes against his word(abrogation) in many parts of the Bible. For example, in the 10 Commandments, there is a rule which “Thou Shall Not Kill”, there is also what Jesus said “Turn the other cheek”, but Biblical God orders the killings of women, children, infants, plants and animals(see Deut. 2:32-37, and 1 Samuel 15:2-4).

    Instead of going through what he(Jesus) KNEW what he was going to go through, he could have said, “You no longer have to sacrifice in order for ME to forgive your sins, because I am Most-Merciful.” You also want us to believe the original sin, something that is obviously unjust. Why am I responsible for what Adam and Eve did, specially of Eve(in the Bible, Eve is holding the biggest responsibility, but in the Qur’an Even AND Adam is held responsible).

    Also you say “The pain and death were inconsequential compared to even a moments separation from the Father.” but the Trinity teaches that the Farther, the Son, and the Spirit are all one, yet distinct. Surely, the Son being one as the Father wouldn’t feel separation. Also, God having the burden of “feeling separation” doesn’t seem Godly. How can something ONE feel separated? This, feeling, clearly shows what Jesus was, a prophet who is a man(peace be upon him), because he wanted to be with GOD, the Creator.

    “At the moment of His death, at the time he took all the sins of the world past and present upon Himself, He was separated from the Father. THAT was the real sacrifice. The pain and death were inconsequential compared to even a moments separation from the Father.”

    What? How can GOD BE SEPARATED? Anyone hearing this will say “Wait, I though we worshiped One God, not 3 separate beings.” Trinity is supposed to say that you worship in one God, in 3 persons. How can they be all God if they are separated?

    As for:
    “The writer of the referenced piece, regardless of his time period, had a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of Christ, His sacrifice, and exactly Who Christians worship.”

    I’m sure he only wrote what he saw.

    Also, he is not “too” wrong. For example, one of the 10 commandments tell us not make idols! Yes, we see the statues of Jesus, Mary, and other biblical figures(peace be upon them) almost every church. Now you might argue that they are not idols in the sense that you do not offer anything to them and you do not believe they hold powers, but they are idols because they are used during worship as a “visual representation”(a reply I got for this before). But John 4:24 says:
    “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    Can you say that you worship God in spirit when you have visual representations of him? Also, you can not deny that there Christians speak to these carvings as if they are God! Perhaps they give a wrong image of Christianity. But we do see in movies and such, such as Christians lighting candles in front of the cross, or Jesus, or Marry (peace be upon them both) and praying by LOOKING at them, as if they are talking to them and see them. Unlike the way we face(but not look, as we look down) Kiblah(it is a temple and it is for unity of the Muslims to worship in the same direction), we don’t believe that the Kiblah is a “visual interpretation” of God or any other figure. I do not believe Christianity(from the Bible) is an idolatry religion, maybe some Christians are giving the wrong image?

    Anyways, I don’t want to derive from the point, the author only wrote what the people at the time and place thought and did. I agree that just because Jesus was a baby doesn’t mean he was defenseless(even though he ran from Egypt), but the problem is not with the author of the Poem but the Christian teachings.

    You say that GOD incarnated his self in to Jesus and also God is 3 persons. How can God do both at the SAME TIME? Please don’t say he is capable of doing anything because the age old question “Can God create a boulder which He can not carry?” which basically means only think in the realm of reason. The Christian teachings just confused him as it confuses many people today(such as the creation[Genesis], I thought God isn’t suppose to be the God of confusion). By saying God incarnated his self in to Jesus(pbuh), you are saying God gave up his Godly powers, but I never heard, until now, a Christian say “the SON incarnated his self in flesh”, which is more easy to understand in the case of the incarnation. I always here the claim “God LITERALLY incarnated his self in flesh which we call Jesus.” But, then the author would think you worship 3 Gods. I honestly think that worshiping Jesus(pbuh) and others is wrong. We should only worship God as One, and not in 3 persons.

    Since we are on that part, let us examine what you just said:
    “Christ was born in the flesh to live life as man and to be tempted as such. His sinless life provided the righteous basis for his sacrifice. He was the Lamb without spot or blemish.”

    Is God’s infinite knowledge an object that can be degraded by “mortalizing” in flesh? How can GOD be tempted or even TRIED?

    As for your last comment, I thank you, because not many people do this. I think, even though I believe you are wrong, it is the thought that counts.

    I pray to Allah so He may guide you to the True path, Islam.

  10. John said on 29 May 2007:

    Reply to Gajibur:

    Assalam alaikum brother!

    Injil.org is just another flagship site to convert Muslims to ‘Kufranity’.

    Most important: It is a site from the answering-islam weasels.

    Just verify these links before they make any changes!!

    Deceit #1
    Deceit #2

  11. Deeroy said on 20 June 2007:

    When I read the About This Site page all that I could think of is that this site was about defending the Muslim faith and counter the lies by anti muslim polemics around the world.Instead what I found is that you guys are more busy attacking the christian beliefs rather than defending the Muslim faith itself.If this is the best response option you guys have then I suggest you guys change ur tagline and the about page.Stick to the cause.Show why it is lies.Bring out your point.

  12. shadowofears said on 30 July 2007:

    Atleast Deeroy we have given you chance to show your view point.How many chances you have given to us?

  13. xyz said on 10 October 2007:

    “USMAN (in reference to your post), while Christ knew full well that He was to die and that He would also be ressurected, that was not the real issue. At the moment of His death, at the time he took all the sins of the world past and present upon Himself, He was separated from the Father. THAT was the real sacrifice. The pain and death were inconsequential compared to even a moments separation from the Father. The cross is a symbol of that sacrifice. It is a rallying point for Christians, but we most certainly do not worship the cross. ”

    ANy FEAR OR “SEPERATION” WOULD be softened cause christianties god ,according to the gospels, knew that his death was not the END of him.isn’t there a happy ending to christian god’s suicide? satan has pre-knowledge that hundreds and thousands will join him in hell only if he endure pain for a few days and pretends to be god.Why would satan give 2 hoots about few days of pain and suffering and “seperation” from his evil?

    “…any feelings of DISTANCE or ABANDONMENT by the father he might have suffered would have been softened by his expectation of being inevitably reunitd with him…”

    “…god’s plan for the salvation of sinners, a PLAN in which jesus himself would have PARTICIPATED by ALLOWING himSELF TO BE EXECUTED, and which as gOD himSELF jesus would have HELPED DESIGN.Therefore far from feeling lonely jesus should have enjoyed a sense of cooperation and fellowship with the father in working towards an eminently worthwhile objective”

    the first sentence in the second paragraph of the 1st response is correct when it said
    “Thus, the sacrifices of ordinary human beings before and after Jesus are more IMPRESSIVE than that of Jesus, since unlike them, according to the gospels, he was fully aware that he would be resurrected and then ascend into heaven.”

  14. Quazi said on 10 February 2008:

    Salamu Alaikum,
    John 3:16 says that ‘Father’, ‘Son’ and ‘Holy Ghost’ are one.
    How come they are one when ‘Son’ is dead but ‘Father’ & ‘Holy Ghost’ are alive?

  15. Quazi said on 10 February 2008:

    Oops….it should be John 1:1

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